What was the reason given for not using Google Services?

This was due to an issue with the sizing of the FW update this time. It should not happen again in a future update.

Good points further, but all could’ve/should’ve/would’ve that’s not going to change the facts of the PPM’s current OS choices. Perhaps the 2020/2021/2022 models may get all this, but the PPX620 is locked in as far as I’ve understood from previous posts by @Philips_Support_P.

Another option is to go to the Aptoide store, [My Apps] [Available Updates] to check and install the latest updates.
No need to Login to the Aptoide store. It keeps track which apps are installed.

Just to add to this, please note that the software is still in development and @Philips_Support_3 did mention a few days back that they were working on a stand-alone system for providing updates to the apps independently of firmware updates. That way, they can potentially issue the latest version of Netflix over the air to all their current and future projectors in one go and be more frequent with it because this would make more sense business-wise in terms of update development time allocated per product. This would be similar, I imagine, to what Anker has in the form of their Nebula Connect or Nebula Manager (I forget) solution where you open their app on your projector and that allows you to install and update various apps.

That being said, I understand what @AndrewMD feels and it’s true that as of right now, the entire portable projector scene is sadly riddled products that cut corners, fall short on promises or have a high barrier to entry because of the technical knowledge required to just sit down and watch something. Portable means you’re taking it with you on the go and you probably don’t have enough time to fiddle with settings and apps or have it fail on you. That being said, out of all the options out there right now (minus the LG because of their software advantage), the PicoPix Max is surprisingly versatile, compact and one of the better options.

I purchased the Anker Nebula Mars 2 before this and that was a Red-dot design winner with bigger, branded speakers and what not but for all intents and purposes, total garbage compared to this in terms of flexibility, portability, customization, app compatibility and Widevine L1. They claimed it could play back content in HD but neither Netflix nor the bundled official Youtube app would play above 540p. The only way to get Android Play Store and other google apps on it was to send them a request via email with your serial number or something and then they would send you a special (it was the same for all users) password that you could use in the firmware update app to get a version of the system software that had some Google services and apps in it. Even then, they slowed down the projector and the apps wouldn’t always work properly. Email them and they’ll reply after days if they feel like it. Here, you are very much part of the product as it’s developed and can talk to the head of engineering or the CEO or marketing head (who’s replying to you here @PhilipsNono) or traverse a dedicated community of collective user knowledge where someone (hint: @IvoGrijt) replies to you at every odd hour of the day. Granted it’s not for everybody, but this is signing up for a different kind of experience and that is something that’s in line with the Indiegogo/Kickstarter style of backing a product as opposed to buying it. You can count on the next versions of the projector to be even better if @Philips_Support_3 has his way. My only grief would be then that I bought this too soon!

A lot of the problems you and others have mentioned are real problems but they have a lot less to do with the platform and more to do with the lack of a good user experience design. The platform is capable but needs streamlining to make it a consumer friendly product that’s reliable and easy to use. I’ve mentioned this several times and I’m sure they have their reasons but good UX, UI, out of the box thinking and fast-paced, agile, human-centered design and system software development can pretty much make this a lovable product and improve the brand’s value by showing a whole new class of consumers how versatile, easy and fun a portable projector can be. Especially now that everyone is indoors and wishing they could ‘go’ somewhere or escape from this difficult reality we are in. However, all of this needs investment in design and development. To create a product and an experience that rises above the rest, you need time, passion and love for the fine little details that go unnoticed by so many others, particularly in this category of electronics. You need empathy for making things easier for your end users and without a proper design system and development flow in place, this problem is only going to get bigger, uglier and more complicated as they release their new lineup, face fragmentation and a deteriorating ROI on making sure this product stays up to date or works well. I mean why update a year old product that sold only 17k units globally when you have new, more exciting products with beefed up specs to push out? The reason is building brand loyalty and showing customers what makes you different. That’s how you go from 17k to 34k. The only way you can do all of this is with a solid design and system in place that can adapt for future products and make Philips/Screeneo’s projector software a platform in and of its own.

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To be fair, many of the shortcomings of PPM isn’t entireley Philips’ fault per se. Some of them are the result of Google and Netflix being greedy and control freaks LOL
My previous projector has Google services but it’s only Android 5 and I think Google allows it as long as it’s the older versions. Would you be rather have with an old and “unsecured” OS with google services?

I wish GNU Linux on phones become successful in the coming years then it’ll come to TVs and projectors.

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In addition to the PPM, I also have a LG PF1500U. Nice compact LED projector, with WebOS (no battery and no AirPlay, however). When I moved from the US to the UK, it lost Netflix functionality, presumably because of some geofencing licensing agreement. WebOS is very nice, but not exactly a hotbed of developer activity.

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The problem with Netflix updates is different: the method Philips developers used to hack Netflix APK was patched by Netflix programmers two years ago, that’s why we are on a super old version without even ability to skip intros. There is no new method since then, so don’t expect miracles here :frowning:

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This almost makes me want to become a piracy advocate. You pay a company to watch content and it just won’t let you watch on secure devices that you purchased because they don’t have a deal or money being exchanged with the manufacturers. Why not just get real debrid or something and one of those free apps and just stream everything you ever wanted?

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Kodi + sickrage for the win :grin:

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Exactly, instead of that petition for Netflix to support this device which isn’t getting anywhere, perhaps we should have a petition to cancel our subscriptions with them, Makes no difference how or if they respond, as each cancelled subscription counts as a win, for if they somehow think what they are doing will have an impact on piracy they must be delusional, it only encourages it.

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Exactly! And copyright laws regarding books, ebooks, movies and songs are so outdated for the digital age. It doesn’t matter where you are, everyone should have legal access to the same stuff or else they’re going to pirate and watch anyways.

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Here’s the thing, PPM was designed with corners cut.

If everything was implemented with consumers in mind (not tinkerers), then this projector would cost maybe more but in the state it was sold at - the vision was too broad and ultimately - This team used Philip’s name to boaster sales.

Now with that being said, there are consumers like me that can afford to replace the projector with another brand but that is not the case for everyone.

The other choice is to use a HDMI dongle, such as Chromecast or TiVo Android TV stick that can provide a more stable viewing experience.

Some have started that BT audio will not function with hdmi, next workaround is to use a BT adapter to output the sound from the audio jack.

With this information, I think some of the issues that are present can be resolved by these two workarounds. It would have been nice to see all of this in a software release - but the current direction of this ppm projector is to only give life support until a certain amount of time has past and it enters an obsolete state.

Philips moderators have already mentioned that they will not have ATV on this model and that they hope to have it in a future model which furthers pushes this unit down the support priority.

For those having MacBook issues - you are going to need to carry your TB to HDMI dongle, that’s the only viable solution outside of investing in a TB cable.

For those with Netflix, Hulu, Disney, etc not playing or streaming from your phone, just install a Chromecast at this point.

For those that are having issues with using a MB charger with the PPM, invest in a good 100w charger block with multiple PD ports or carry both charger bricks.

Lastly - while nothing is ever perfect in the world of tech - choosing to back another Indiegogo projector will most likely yield the same results.

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You’re saying that as if it’s a bad thing that should not have been done.
Philips is a brand known for so many inventions and innovations, but that nowadays only makes medical equipment themselves. They have licensees making all sorts of products with their name:
TV’s: TP Vision
Hue: Signify
Projectors: Screeneo
Etc. Etc.
So as a brand licensing partner shouldn’t they have brought it out under the Philips brand they license?
I don’t see why that’s seen as a lie or a bad thing.

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Some really well made points of view from everyone - nice.

Give it a year and the PPM will be hacked for Google services, some very clever people hidden in these forums (not me :rofl:)

As an owner of the Picopix Max and being a 15 years firmware / hardware embedded engineer (Linux Kernel / Android / OS Less Devices) I would like to share a feedback / wish.

This Picopix Max is very cool, with quite good hardware specifications.

While I agree that it is quite cool to have a standard AOSP Android ROM as base for current firmware image allowing to install any non Android TV APPs this on the other hands implies other drawbacks that can quickly became real problems (Example : Netflix APP update and Full HD support).

It would be so nice to have a certified and maintained official ROM / Firmware image for this device ( Android TV + GMS + DRM + working OTA update) .

This is the only / best guarantee to have a device that gets normal OS (security) and APPs updates for a more “long term support” and also synchronisation via different Android devices a user may own.

I really fear to see that device becoming same as a lot of Android devices we all have seen being abandoned by Device Manufacturers !

They became unusuable not receiving security updates or Android version / API / GMS updates, being unable to install APPs, etc… They become electronic waste for no valid reasons ! (hardware still OK for running the OS)

Look at what a company with good engineers and will is able to maintain (do long term support) a product / device : Nvidia Shield TV.
They even released Developpers kit / sources for the community to develop Custom ROMs.

Android architecture has changed (Project Trebble) over the time to reduce device OS versions / ability to get device OS update faster, please use it !

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Is it possible to make a work around when some apps won’t work because off the missing Google services

The workaround is to use a service dongle. Now that TiVo has an Android TV dongle for cheap, it will allow you to do everything the PPM was supposed to do.

Hi!

In fact we already explained the reason behind:
GOOGLE doesn’t certify Projectors and Netflix doesn’t want to certify them neither. Thats why everyone in the industry is using Android AOSP or a dongle.
We really fought for 1 year to get the Widevine L1 certification to get Full HD content. Which nobody has on an Android AOSP.
We chose a trade off :slight_smile:

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@Philips_Support_N Yes we have read and understood the explanations.

No not everyone in the industry is using android AOSP :
Android TV + GMS on Mi Smart Projector : https://www.mi.com/us/mi-smart-compact-projector/specs
(Everything Full HD / 4K, except maybe Netflix)

We understand the trade off, that enables us to install apps with sideload and have Netflix Full HD content now.
However, the concern is what about security updates ? what about being forced to used patched, hacked or old app ? Netflix or any other APP can make an update in future that can make the device unusable.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s currently a very cool projector and it does well the job, but I hope firmware and functionnality will be maintained…

This is true of any device. My 386SX @ 16MHz couldn’t run Windows 95 when that came out, and I had to get a new PC when my Pentium Pro tower wouldn’t run Windows 2000.

Thankfully the PPX has both HDMI and USB-C ports which allow it to accept input from newer devices capable of running whichever apps we can no longer run on the built in Android OS.

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The reason why I want google services is that several apps i use needs it. I use DRTV, TV2 play, HBO Nordic and Formula 1 PRO. These 4 apps is not working for me, and I have tryed several versions of the apps, but no luck so far. I have tryed several browser to get it working there, but there is a big loading time and a lot of the times it crashes. I also use Apple TV+ thrue a browser and it also have a lot of problems. Hope it will be better in the futura or we will get a hack, so we can get Google services. I don’t want a dongle cause of the bluetooth speaker problem.

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